Dr. Pumla Gobodo-Madikizela is a professor and influential former member of South Africa’s Truth and Reconciliation Commission, which was created to address the injustices of apartheid. She was awarded the 2024 Templeton Prize for her insight into trauma and forgiveness in post-apartheid South Africa, and she developed a model for social healing in the aftermath of conflict, something she calls “the reparative quest.”

Her award-winning book A Human Being Died That Night recounts her conversations with Eugene de Kock, the former commander of state-sanctioned death squads, and she builds a case for the possibility of remorse, forgiveness, and reconciliation. Pumla joins the podcast to explain why we can’t just “forgive and forget” and how her encounters with Eugene DeKock led her to develop the concept of “the reparative quest.”